How much influence does our primary socializing have on who we become? This chapter gives us many insights into that question. I am especially interested in the agents of socialization. The author suggests that the 2 major agents are parents and schools. In his analysis of sex-role acquisition, he makes some strong statements about the roles of men and women intentionally created by God or, as he calls it, “God ordained circumstances.” He believes that there are parameters for each gender. While I would agree with him in theory on this, I believe I would not be able to accept the parameters he sets forth as being “God ordained.” In studying the life of Christ while he walked on this earth, I find him oftentimes showing women especially that they are released from the gender socialization that was imposed on them by their culture. I actually believe that God ordained men and women to be more alike than different. Sure there are some differences, especially biological differences but I see this in much the same way as racial difference. God created men and women in diverse ways physically yet he tells us in many places that we are all the same. We are one in Him. He does not treat me differently because I am a woman and my male counterpart in a different way because he is simply male. Therefore, it makes no sense to me that we treat each other differently due to our physical makeup. We have been socialized that this is appropriate. If you want to argue this point from a cultural or socialization aspect, then I can understand why we treat one another differently. But to place parameters based on the Bible upon particular role behavior goes beyond what I believe was intended by God. Much of what we learn as masculinity and femininity is simply the socialization process begun early in life. It is important that we sort this out – this nature/nurture debate. It has deep implications in each of our lives as we try to determine how best to please God.
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27 responses so far ↓
Kelsey Freed // February 13, 2007 at 7:07 pm
I believe that our primary socialization does greatly affect who we become. I would also agree that the family and schools are two of the primary agents of the socialization of young people. I know that my family has impacted my views on many things. While I was growing up, my parents emphasized that all people are created by God and deserve to be treated equally. Therefore, while it is easy in certain situations to see differences between people, I have strived to not let those physical differences affect my perception of that individual. My educational upbringing has also impacted my view of people by exposing me to people of different races and allowing me to interact with them and learn from personal experience that they are not very different from myself.
Angela Horning // February 13, 2007 at 8:25 pm
I also believe that socialization is an important factor on what we believe and the way we act in our society. The male and female role is a good example of socialization. The man has traditionally been taught to be “tough” and to not show their emotion. They were to be the provider of the family and the head of the household. The woman was taught to be a help mate to her husband, to be emotional, and sensitive. She was to be the mother and housekeeper. I believe that some of these things God created us to do… He commands us to do. Like men are supposed to be the head of the household and women are supposed to obey their husbands. Sometimes I think that society puts pressure on people to be what they aren’t. For example, if a woman likes to hunt or fish… according to the way we have been socialized that seems “wrong” or if a man cries in public… that seems “wrong” also. I think our society does help shape someones life in a big way. It is sometimes hard to know whether it is society or God who is determining what we, as humans, are. It should be God… but socialization is a powerful force.
Michael Schoonover // February 14, 2007 at 1:01 am
To simply put it, I agree with Dr. Warner. God made men and women different physically as apart of human physical needs. In contrast with the physical, I believe that God made men and women similar in the way that God sees us as His children and that He doesn’t distinguish which ones of His children are male or female. Society on the other hand stresses that men are different in roles than women and I think that the only way the Bible agrees with this is in the role of the family and the church such as the male is to be the head of the household and the head of the church. Society makes more detailed roles of males and females. For example, a female CEO and a stay-at-home dad are still a little unfamiliar to society’s standards.
Charissa Rowe // February 14, 2007 at 1:59 am
“But to place parameters based on the Bible upon particular role behavior goes beyond what I believe was intended by God. ”
I believe that men and women were created with very different, specific roles from the beginning
of creation. Eve was created for Adam to be a suitable helper for him. After the fall, her desire would be for her husband, but he would rule over her. Thus, in the Bible, it is clear that men are to be the head of the home, and women are to submit to their husbands.
However, I do not think that submission limits me, as a woman. Often, I read Proverbs 31, and I realize how many things that I am able to do as a woman:
1. Work with my hands. Proverbs 31:13
2. Shop for and purchase food. Proverbs 31:14
3. Invests in land. Proverbs 31:16
4. Plants and maintains vineyards. Proverbs 31:16
5. Provides clothing for her family. Proverbs 31:21
6. Makes and sells merchandise. Proverbs 31:24
In fact, the Proverbs 31 woman is presented as a businesswoman. She is smart and strong and clearly is also involved in the decision making for her family. However, with all of her freedom, she is always called to submit to her husband spiritually. Submission does not mean that she is not free to do things that are viewed as “boyish.” It simply means that she is to obey the commands that God has put in place for her, as a woman.
I think another part of Scripture we have to consider is the role of Deborah. Deborah was a judge of Israel, and through her leadership, she led the Israelites to victory. Obviously, God allowed (even appointed?) her as a judge of the people. Clearly, the Israelite’s politics and religion were intertwined, if not one. Where does this fall in the debate of the role of women?
Or what about the role of Phoebe in the New Testament? Was she a deaconess? Several theologians agree that she was a deaconess, including John MacArthur and John Piper.
Thus, Biblically, it is clear that women can be in positions of leadership, but they must ultimately answer to Christ and their husbands. It is difficult to know where to draw the line of submission and dominance. But this I do know: women and men definitely have specific roles, but I don’t think the roles are limiting or overbearing. It is simply how we are created, and God’s design is beautiful.
Emily Broersma // February 14, 2007 at 10:02 pm
I find the topic of socialization very interesting. I think it is so fascinating to be able to understand to an extent why we act the way that we do. When it comes to the difference of male v. female, I think it is particularly interesting. It is clear in our society that certain roles are designated for men and certain roles for women. And it is true that these “stereotypes” begin in infancy. The baby boy gets a blue room, with tractors, cars, and planes for toys, while the baby girl gets the pink room with dolls and stuffed animals for toys. As they grow up, they usually stick to what they have been taught. Looking back in history, it is clear that at times these differences have been used to give males an advantage over women. However, I believe that God created man and women equal, but has given them different roles. I think in a certain sense these different roles come out in the way society views men/women’s roles. Just looking on the surface, men are usually the ones who understand and fix all the car troubles, while women are usually the ones to cook and to care for the children. Consequently, I would have to say that the majority of the roles that society pushes on men and women are actually a result of the way God created them.
Daniel Cho // February 15, 2007 at 2:05 am
We often hear sermons in churches about the role of the gender. Some believe that there are parameters for each gender.
In the scripures, there are verses that how women and men should behave in some manner.
However, most of the time, especially in Bible, God symmbolizes Himself as a husband and women are His children. Therefore we have to find out carefully about what the Bible says about the “parameter.”
I think socialization is learned, because there are some other cultures where the “role” we think is sometimes different then ours.
For example, in Uzbekistan where most of the household incomes comes from woll industry, the women are in charge of the whole household economy. And the men are staying at home and taking care of their children.
And in most of the “christan families”, husband are leading the family spritually. I think there are also som biblical command how each gender should be.
However, I do not think that gender parameters should be judged on poeple because God has an unique plan for each one of us.
For example, Paul lived the life alone preaching gospel even some Bible verses said that “men and women are fit together.”
Thus the socialization should not be a parameter to judge a gender or specific person.
Caitlin Hull // February 15, 2007 at 2:24 am
I believe that men and women were created to be equal, yet different. There are cretain roles for both men and women specifically outlined in the Bible, such as the man being the head of the household and church; however, one sex is not better than the other.
Although it is true that the sexes begin to learn the cultural expectations at birth, I believe that part of it is a natural part of being human. Most boys will be attracted to toys like trucks, while most girls will be more attracted to dolls. This isn’t simply because these are the toys with which our parents surround us; it is becuase this is the way we have been created. Try to get a little boy to try to choose a doll over a truck. (I have a little brother, and believe me, my sisters and I tried. It does not work.)
Sometimes it becomes difficult to distinguish between that which is God-ordained and that which is human tradition. In some ways, men and women have God-ordained roles, while in others, our roles have developed out of tradition. The traditional roles of men and women, such as women staying home to care for the family and men working to provide for the family, are what are rapidly changing in American society. The God-ordained roles of men and women, however, are not subject to change.
Chris Travis // February 15, 2007 at 2:30 am
I agree with the belief that while men and women are very different, genetically speaking, we are not tremendously different in the eyes of our maker, Christ Jesus. However, I do not necessarily hold to the belief that God intends for men and women to be more alike than different. While He does not love any of us more or less based on our gender, He has uniquely designed both races, and I believe that His intentions go further than to prove the complexity of His creation. I support this belief with scripture, in that there are several instances throughout the Bible where God clearly lists his intended roles for men and women. An example of this can be seen addressed in 1 Peter, in relation to marriage. He says “In the same way, you wives, be submissive to your husbands. You husbands likewise, live with your wives in an understanding way, as with a weaker vessel, since she is a woman; and grant her honor and as a fellow-heir of the grace of life.” This can also be supported in Ephesians 5.
Cassandra Dobutovich // February 15, 2007 at 10:32 pm
God has designed man and woman, yes, in His own image but I do not agree with the statement that he has “created us more alike than different.” God created woman after man becuase He saw that it was not good for man to be alone. Proverbs 31 talks a lot about the strength of a woman and all that she does. I believe that God created man and woman to work together, they compliment each other, but we are still so different, and it needs to be that way in order for the two to prosper greatly as a couple in contributing to each other. Yes, we are created equally in the eyes of God, and there should never be discrimination if that is what the author was saying against man and woman. Though we are both seen equal in the eyes of God, we are different and are capable of different things.
Sarah Bresson // February 15, 2007 at 10:57 pm
I would agree with Cassie on how men and women are extremely different. Each one of us has different roles to play that the Lord has given us. Also, He gave us different physical characteristics which are obvious to the human eye. There are areas in each sex that the other one will never understand because God made so different. It is amazing to be able to be so diverse but compliment each other well.
Ruthie Plasterer // February 16, 2007 at 4:32 am
Well, it’s obvious that socialization has a big influence on who we become. I would argue that society plays a larger role on our gender roles than many conservative Christians would think.
I believe that God sees men and women equally and loves us the same (as I think everyone here would agree). A controversial topic concerning gender roles is having women leaders in the church. God can use a person from any gender and He has not limited himself to something within a gender role he specified from the beginning. I think, one of the most interesting bible stories of a woman is the story of Jael. She was a hero for killing Sisero. God used her for something our society would say was a “man’s job”. There were woman prophetesses in the bible and prophecy is a spiritual gift. I find it hard to believe that God made gender a prerequisites to doing His work.
Katie McGee // February 16, 2007 at 6:41 pm
I believe that men and women are wired differently physically, and emotionally. But I agree with Dr. Warner when she says, “He does not treat me differently because I am a woman and my male counterpart in a different way because he is simply male. ” Even though we are designed differently, God has made it so that we are able to come together ‘as one flesh.’ Because of this, I would have to conclude that, overall, God has made man and woman more similar than different. When Jesus speaks about Christian Living in the New Testament, He addresses both sexes. And the same goes for Peter, Paul, and the prophets of the Old Testament. There are times when men or women are addressed specifically, and it is at these times that we see the unique way God has wired the sexes differently. But again, I think that when we look at the bigger picture, God has made us more similar than different, despite cultural expectations placed on the role of each sex.
Justine Ross // February 17, 2007 at 1:59 am
I do not believe that God intended for women and men to differ so much in their jobs or their actions or their response to him. I don’t think he sees my sin as being different from that of a man’s sin. However, I do think that God created differences that go beyond physical appearance and chemical make up. I think that though a woman can hold the position of judge just as a man can, they are to do it differently in that…they view things from a different perspective. The woman will naturally accomplish the same task as a man, differently than a man would. I think this was planned. I think God intended for there to be differences like that. Proverbs 31 talks about how the wife will do this and that and will be much like a business woman but i think the reason that this proverb is there is to show that though that is true, she still is in a different place than the man…I hope I made sense with all this…
Jihoi Hwang // February 17, 2007 at 8:01 am
I have ever wonderd what is the Biblical roles of men and women. My answer is that we are created equally in the eyes of God.
In a society, because we have biological differences, our roles are seperated like that men have to work for a family and women have to obey to her husband .
sometimes some women think that I just have to cook and lundary for family. They think just that’s all. I think that these roles just appear on the surface. Because we are created equally in the eyes of God and God created man and woman to work together, we can make a compliment each other.
If we find how best to please God, we have to do that without a concern about a surface role of male and female. If we work together for rasing name of God, I think doesn’t matter that surface roles.
Caleb Barton // February 17, 2007 at 5:16 pm
I believe that we are socalized to see a difference between men and women and look differently at anyone who breaks those rules of what a man or a woman should be. God made men and woman different physically, but he did not create men to be CEOs and women to be teachers and moms. He has given both men and women the ability to do many different tasks and to dictate that only certain abilities are given to men and other to women is not what God intended. There are differecnes inherintly between men and women but these do not dictate whether or not God loves one sex more than the other, but that these differences were made to work together.
Randi Raimer // February 17, 2007 at 7:29 pm
I believe that God loves both male and females equally and that one’s not better than the other. We were made for each other as compliments not as complete dominance over the other. Yes, I believe that there are specific roles and some limitations in that women are not to be pastors, and though women are to be submissive to their husbands, I believe that we are to live in harmony with one another. God has created us to be compliments of one another to complete God’s tasks set before us. Husband and wife are to make mutual decisions and not independently. So although he has made each sex unique I believe that He has also made us similar.
Sarah Hamilton // February 17, 2007 at 9:30 pm
I would agree that socialization plays a significant role in our gender identity, but I would not go so far as to say that God had nothing to do with it. I believe that God did in fact create men and women with different characteristics, beyond physical, that mesh so well together. Men are adventurous in a “go out and explore” way, and women are adventurous in a “I want to be chased” way. See how those work? My view on this was solidified when I read Captivating by John and Stasi Eldredge. It is a great book and goes into more detail about how God did create us to fit together. I think that God knew what He was doing and did it well when He created men and women in different, yet somewhat similar ways.
Caitlin Allen // February 18, 2007 at 8:42 pm
I’m sure that I would need a much more complete understanding of the Bible in order to adequately determine male and female role behavior as intended by God. I do, however, believe that God did create man and woman to be different but equal in value before Him. Indeed, man was incomplete without woman. In their differences, woman provides for man whatever is lacking in him, and man provides for woman whatever is lacking in her. It’s a beautiful thing.
At the same time, I do believe that society and culture plays a huge role in male/female role behavior. Just as an example (however shallow it may be), I know that as I was growing up, my family got me into both ballet and soccer. My parents didn’t place a huge emphasis upon what girls should do vs. what boys should do, so when I decided I wanted to play soccer with the boys and not do ballet or play dolls with the girls, that was perfectly fine. I grew up very much a “tomboy” until I reached middle school, at which point, other students at school made it clear that there were clear and certain boundaries between female behavior and male behavior. Simply that experience made it clear to me that there are certain sociological agents that define male/female role behavior.
Gena Bravick // February 18, 2007 at 10:21 pm
“But to place parameters based on the Bible upon particular role behavior goes beyond what I believe was intended by God.” I mostly agree with this statement. However, it’s important to understand that God does give particular roles for men and women in the church. I think it is clear that women are not to be pastors. This doesn’t mean that women are any less smart than men, but God has chosen to structure His church in this way. I definitely agree that God makes it clear that He does not prefer men over women or women over men. Both genders are seen as having equal worth. This is how our societies should be as well. We should give equal rights to men and women and allow women the opportunities given to men. However, many women still do not want a career and would prefer to concentrate on raising a family. I think this should also be valued and respected, and not seen as a “defeat” in women’s rights. My mom stayed home to raise me even though she had a college degree. I really benefitted from that and hope I can do the same if I ever have children. I enjoyed reading everyone’s comments on this issue – I think it is really interesting to discuss.
Kristen Doles // February 19, 2007 at 3:30 am
I cannot agree with the idea that our feminity and masculinity is completely a result of socialization. I do believe that God has created the two genders very much alike but also vastly different, and not just in our physiques. There are obvious biblical accounts of the different roles of men and women in the church and in marriage. And I also think that God was creative in developing our personalities and did choose some things to be more appealing women/girls than to men/boys and vice versa. While it’s very true that we were not created in a way that shows favoritism to a gender, we were, nonetheless, create very differently.
Ashley Gleichauf // February 19, 2007 at 4:26 am
I believe that men and women were created equally, but I also believe that we were created to fulfill different roles. In a way, the socialization we experience from the time we are born has great influence on the roles we play but I think that many of our roles are a part of God’s immaculate design and are a part of us. I think that it is clear that God does not show preference to man or woman, but just because we are created the same in God’s eyes, we were also created with unique attributes that set us apart from one another – not for the purpose of favortism, but as a design and a plan.
Laura Cover // February 19, 2007 at 4:39 am
I definately feel that socialization has an important role in shaping many areas of our lives, one of these being our personalities and roles as men and women. After all, we act upon and deem what is acceptable for our specific gender from what our society teaches us while we grow. This however goes hand in hand with the fact that God intended males and females to be different. He has created us both equal, but in no way the same. The Lord blessed both genders with different instincts and tendencies that when put together, complement eachother well. There are numerous specific passages in the Bible focused on men or on women making it clear that we were not built the same or intended to be totally alike.
Stacie Peden // February 19, 2007 at 4:42 am
I believe God created Adam and Eve which make a man and a woman, he created us to be equal but he also created us to hold our own roles that make us different from each other. I think that throughout life that our society has helped mold the roles of man and woman. Women are to be at home cleaning and cooking, men are to be at work making the money and providing. I think that even today that is still in our minds that the roles of women and men work that way, but as woman take rights and want to be treated in work fields just like men it’s changing the roles of women. I believe that there will always be an affect on the roles of men and women because of socialization. God wired men and women to be different, to out weigh our weaknesses and for the women to submit and respect our men and for the men to love us. I also think there are parts in the Bible that clearly state that man shall only do this and women should not, for example roles in the church. But overall I believe that our roles are highly based off socialization.
Ryan Hyde // February 19, 2007 at 4:45 am
I would also say that men and women were definatly created equally but are called to do different duties. I would also say that our social upbringing does play a large part in our development as human beings. However, I think its only to a certain degree. God has a perfect plan for us and He will mold us into who He wants us to be. He does give us all different but similar charecteristics.
Amanda Beesley // February 19, 2007 at 5:14 am
I think that how we were raised and what we were taught makes us what we are today. This is why it is important for parents to raise their children biblically and according to God’s Word. Yes, it is correct that men and women were created in the likeness of God (Gen. 1:27) and in His image. However, I do believe that God ordained different roles for men and women which is clear in several passages of Scripture (Gen. 2:18, Gen. 3:16-20). Different does not have to mean unequal. God has ordained and created men and women for the specific roles He expects them to fulfill.
Eric Smith // February 19, 2007 at 6:42 am
I think that socialization does play a big part in to shape our personality. I think this is evident when we compare people with the environment that they grew up in. If you look at two best friends even though they are not related, many of them act very similarly. I think that the influences early in our childhood are the ones that most affect how we are.
Brad Muschott // February 19, 2007 at 7:12 am
I believe that we are socialized to think in a way that men and women are different in roles or purposes. Yes i believe that God created men and woman equal but to fulfill different purposes. Since birth, our genetic makeup has been our greatest influence for sure, but those who tend to act more like the opposite sex is looked down upon. In today’s society, we can’t just look at that and think it is normal because i don’t think it is at all. We need to realize that God created us to look physically different for a reason.